The Discussion Begins!

[Eonwë]

Hail all Valar Guild members going into World of Warcraft!

Time has come to begin setting things in stone. let the discussion of our WoW branch begin!

So far, these are decided:

!.)We are not going to be on a RP server. It has been found too restrictive in other games and we want the freedom to be the Valar Guild without any constraints.

2.)Our Guild will be formed of Alliance races as opposed to the Horde. For now it seems guilds will be divided along factions, so unfortunately we can't have Orcs and Elves teaming up. One of our goals is to go in strong, so we all need to be going in on the same side.

3.)We are the Valar Guild, and that means Tolkien should be involved in our guild somehow. Obviously we won't be going around saying "Gandalf sent me" or whatever, but there's subtle little ways we can involve Tolkien and make our experience more fun at the same time :}

A short list of things that need to be discussed (this is not a complete list, only samples of what are still up for discussion):

1.)Day/Time for our WoW meeting. It needs to be a day and time we all can make it, but it can't interfere with the Main Guild Meeting. Some of us will want to atend both :} and I hope most if not all of us still intend to make the Main Guild meeting so knowledge of our existence isn't lost in the depths of time :}

2.) Ways to involve Tolkien in our gaming. Rank names are certainly going to be related. We can use choice Elvish phrases, or even other Tolkien languages if one so chooses :} Other ideas?

3.) Benefits for members from crafters. This only works if we all agree to go by these :} I for one have no qualms crafting items for members at cost(= they give me items and I craft them) or in the case of it being a good item I've found/made but can't use, giving it away. At least from my perspective this encourages trade within our Guild and gives us a strong economy. Any other opinions or ideas on this?

Anything else anyone thinks we need to discuss, please bring it up.

Take care :}
Eonwë

[ArPharazon]

Hail Eonwe and all other WoW playing members!
Finally! The Discussion Begins!
Alright, here are my thoughts for now.

1. Day and time for meeting:
The same time of the day as the Main Meeting would be very nice for me (unless it's on Saturday, when I am unavailable at that time), as probably for all European members, provided that the main discussions don't last much longer than 1 hour, unless it's in the weekend (meaning Friday and Saturday). Should the meeting fall on Friday or Saturday, I would not mind if the meeting was a few hours later than the Main Meeting time.

2. Ways to involve Tolkien in our gaming:
As we will play Alliance, there is no need for me to change the names I have already chosen, therefore I already have 2-3 characters related to Tolkien, especially my own guildname. Of course there are other ways to involve Tolkien in our gameplay, like general greetings and stuff (e.g. Aiya). For our guild color and insignia we could probably also use something Tolkienish.

3: Crafting benefits:
I completely agree with you here, and will do what I can to help establish the Valar economy.

Extra:
www.worldofwar.net/guilds/ is a very nice page about guild details, part of http://www.worldofwar.net./, where much other useful information is located. On the specific page you can find at this time info about guild insignia, guild halls, and more. This could provide further discussion points.

These were my current thoughts, more will probably come in the future.

Ar-Pharazon the Golden

[Maglor]

I agree with the points mentioned by Ar-Pharazon. If I made this message any longer I would be just restating those same ideas.

Maglor

[Orome]

Are alliances similar to those on DAoC? If thats the case that is good, as our guild may be small, but having a good alliance can be very helpful in a number of ways/ I really need to do more reading up on WoW.....

[Eonwë]

To be honest, I'm not all that interested in forming alliances, so I haven't done any research into it.

In what ways would it be very helpful?

I don't really like the idea. The power and authority in the Valar Guild as long as I've been here has rested with the Council and the membership. We've stood on our own two feet this long and in my opinion we're stronger for it. I don't like the idea of subordinating the Valar Guild or any branch of it to any other entity.

[ArPharazon]

I have never played DAoC, and do not know what an alliance means in that game. But the only alliance I know of in WoW is THE Alliance, as in 4 of the world's races on one side, permanently, unless Blizzard implements a huge story-twist. This Alliance is 1 of 2 factions, the other one being the Horde, and those two factions principally work alike.

A player can have characters of every race, regardless of side, and a guild can (so far) only have 1 faction's characters as members. Therefore, if one group of players wanted to have all their characters in a Guild of their making, they would have to make 2 branches, one in each faction. An Alliance or Horde character can only do business with merchants and characters on their side, and would automatically be at war with every other member of the other side. So, the 'alliances' in WoW are permanent, not by anyone's choice but Blizzard's, whether one likes it or not.

Therefore, if you do not wish to subordinate the Valar Guild to a higher entity, it does not matter, for you still have your own authority in WoW. You do not have to follow orders from anyone (except Blizzard perhaps, if they really wanted to), and can do anything you want, as long as you keep the hostility between the two 'alliances' in mind.

[Eonwë]

The term "alliance" in this case refers not to "The Alliance" but to what that term implies: to or more groups (in this case guilds or clans) of people who come together for a purpose. Usually these groups agree to have an overall leader, such as Lord Lothar being the leading general of the Alliance forces while he was alive.

Blizzard is not really a higher entity but an outside power. They're not going to try to make deals with us besides "you pay x amount we let you play y time." They're not going to tell us what we must do to our members if they do x thing (example, not necesarrily an actual part of an alliance). If any character gets too far out of line they indiscriminately deal with that character/account. When I say higher entity I refer to a group outside of the Valar Guild that we either as individual members or as an entire Guild/Guild Branch would be answerable to. This I'm not interested in.

[Maglor]

I totally agree, I don't think The Valar Guild should make a formal alliance with another guild/clan, though I would not be adverse to partying up with another guild to participate in some of the "epic" (requiring lots and lots of people) quests that have been rumoured.

Maglor

[Edit] Yay! Fiftieth post!

[ArPharazon]

No, a formal alliance with another guild would not be typical for our Guild, and I'm glad for that. But I do think I'll be working with lots of people in WoW, those I know or those I am less familiar with, for both epic and smaller quest(serie)s, for I do have faith in the playing community (though I may be wrong about that). I do not doubt that the rest of the Guild, as a whole, or individual, will also temporarily join forces with others, especially in those epic quests. After all, united we stand, and on our own we could fall One for all, and all for one!

And congrats, Maglor, for us both the journey to 100 posts has now begun, and I know we can both reach that destination

[Orome]

I have found a GOOD alliance to be a wonderful thing! I am not sure if WoW will go along those lines, but since there will be a lot of cross over from othes mmorpgs, I suspect their will be. The nice thing about alliances is they often schedule events, can be called apon to aid you with quests, etc. etc. You retain individuality of your own guild, but have access to numbers when needed. The Valar branch of the guild on DAoC is tiny, it has been helpful to have alliance buddies to chat with and join with for events. I don't care a HUGE amount either way, and there is absolutely no hurry to jump into one, but it should be an area to be considered by whoever is ultimately the WoW branch leader. Speaking of the real WoW ALLIANCE what are we thinking? I am less enthusiastic about the horde, but I am fairly flexible.....Orome

[Eonwë]

Well, unless something very unforseeable happens, that "someone" is me :} I'd already volunteered for it way back when I first heard of WoW (I'm sure it's mentioned in a Council mail somewhere further back than last July when TFT came out :})

As for alliances, I've thought alot on this since the DAoC group joined theirs. I've read the rules of that alliance. My understanding of that alliance is that it only affects the DAoC branch of the Valar Guild. I guess I prefer to stand on my own two feet. I always liked our neutral policy toward other guilds: we can get along fine if they want, but if they want to be jerks we'll not deal with them at all. But then I guess I'm an individualist of sorts, even when concerning groups :} I'm wary of situations where others can dictate my actions/decisions against my will.

The stuff you've said about planning events and such I'd assume would go for Guilds as well.

I don't expect us to totally cut off contact with other groups, or even individuals, nor do I expect everyone in our group to try and "convert" every lone player to the Valar Guild. I do realize there will be times members will play with other groups or individuals. That's all well and good by me :} There will probably be times when I do it myself.

Alliance/Horde:
Those who have spoken up have spoken for Alliance. At least at first it's probably best we all go in on the same side.

Congrats Maglor :}

[Varda]

Aye, Eonwe is our designated WoW branch leader. That means of course that he will be needing helpers of all sorts.

In EverQuest, we have three sorts of relationships between guilds that I know of:

Friendship between guilds, where lets the other know when they're having a raid, and members can come help. This can be a lot of fun.

Alliances between guilds when the call is closer to a command, and one guild is generally boss over the others. That's the one I'd like to avoid.!

Same guild but different sections. For instance, one "guild" is the newbie group playing together, which could be called the "Maiar" guild if we like. The next includes the top players who need especially high raids, could be called the Valar guild. Alternates for the same person can be in each. They are actually the same guild with differently named parts for their different functions: newbie or top level gaming. Once your character becomes high enough level, it is switched over. We could even go for a third group of Free People for extreme newbieness.

[Orome]

I had assumed that Eonwe was the guy in charge I guess our alliances are more like the first thing you mentioned, guilds that get together for special events. I certainly don't recall any certain guild in the alliance having any more power than anybody else. I wouldn't want that either! I'm really pretty flexible, if there are enough people in the Valar branch to stand alone, then by all means! If, however, the population is very low we may need to look to other guilds for assistance.

[Varda]

Hey you know us. We're always making friends. I'm sure we'll find other folk and guilds who would fight alongside us, whether we need help or not, as we would for them.

[Eonwë]

Well, doesn't necesarily have to be one Guild more powerful than the others, just that the others think the way it should be done is not the way the Valar Guild thinks it should. (the general "it" of course, nothing particular in mind :}).

I think "friendship" is good enough, as we tried with the Keepers of the Fellowship Guild a while back before they apparently disbanded (a shame). We were willing to get together for games in an agreed common password game (not a guild game for either group), but other than that our Guilds had no other "official" commitments to eachother and we didn't become "The Valar Guild, part of such-and-such alliance."

I think the second is safely out of the question by everyone's standards :}

The third is interesting. Only, at first even the Valar Guild would be full of newbies unless they wanted to start off in the "Free People Guild" then wait until they are high level to make the Valar Guild :}

I'll not drag this out, but just say that I'm not afraid of small numbers if we're all good friends and all active :}

Take care :}
Eonwë