Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,323
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Post by Eonwë on Mar 30, 2017 5:03:34 GMT -5
I said I'd post this topic for discussion during the week, but alas, I find myself once again too short on time to share my own thoughts. So, I'll post it and let you all have at it until I do find some time.
I was reading the LotRO interview linked on the News for March 17th, and found a certain part about how they're defining High Elves interesting. The way it read to me, it's like they expected it to be controversial that the term would encompass the descendants of these elves as well. So, what do we know of the High Elves, both in LotR where their license lies, and outside i.e. Silmarillion, the term's application, history, etc., and why should or shouldn't their definition be controversial?
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Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,323
|
Post by Eonwë on Apr 10, 2017 7:35:28 GMT -5
I had a nice, lovely post all typed up, and then a stray keystroke made it all disappear, and yet again, I am reminded why I should type my posts into Notepad rather than the browser, then copy-paste. I'll now have to give a shorter, perhaps less flowy version of that post:
The descendants of the Noldor who left Aman, pure-blooded or not, can be considered High Elves.
1.) HoME XI, section "Quendi and Eldar" gives us some back story on the Noldor and their uses of the words "Calaquendi" and "Moriquendi" as well as additional tidbits. One item of note is that, despite being Exiles, they still considered themselves "Amanyar." They adjusted their use of "Moriquendi" to exclude the Sindar, who found the use of that term on them offensive. So, even if up until that time they grouped all Calaquendi as "Eldar who sailed to Aman and lived in the Light of the Two Trees" before, when the reality that that was no longer possible occurred, the simplest of addenda would've been "and their descendants." Same for "Tar Eldar."
2.) "High Elf" is a name of a people, likely given by those people to themselves. Typically, the name of a people is passed down generationally until one generation or group decides to no longer be called by that name. In the aforementioned section, the Vanyar still called themselves by their original clan name of Minyar. Nandor, upon arriving into Beleriand, still called themselves by their original clan name (in their language at the time) of Lindar.
But that's in HoME. What about in LotR?
Let's look at The Two Towers, Book IV, Chapter 5: "The Window on the West"
Here we see that the people of Gondor (those familiar with the lore and care about such things, at least) still see themselves as "High Men" even though Numenor sunk below the waves more than three thousand years ago. And indeed, while Faramir laments that perhaps they no longer deserve that title, it is not because the people of Gondor weren't born on Numenor, it is not because Numenor was lost, and it is not because the blood of his people had "become mingled with that of lesser men." Rather, it is because their culture had changed.
Noldorin culture, while naturally adapting as it may during the passage of time, would not shift so quickly, as there would be more overlap in the living generations such that not much is lost to time. So, an Elda of Noldorin descent, pure-blooded or otherwise, embracing the Noldorin/High Elven culture, could be considered a High Elf.
However, the interviewer implicates Sindar as "High Elf" as well in the question, based on a reference to a comment they say was made by a third party, which by lore they are not. Appendix F in RotK makes the distinction clear, as well as The Silmarillion. That might be a little more controversial :} The response addresses only the correct range of potential High Elves though, so there's probably no need to worry about that much :}
So there you go. Hope you enjoyed the reading :}
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