Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,322
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Ranking
Jan 14, 2004 2:53:37 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Jan 14, 2004 2:53:37 GMT -5
Just htought I'd share with you that at this time MEO is planned to have 5 levels of ranking.
They are: Leader, Heir, Elders, members, Pledges.
How I think this affects us: The branch leader/coordinator will obviously be the leader and be the initializer of the Guild.
The heir will be another Vala who can take up the responsibilities should anythign happen to the leader (which should be any of us Valar :})
Elders will have to be a mix of Valar and Maiar. Could be worse :}
Members will of course be the standard membership :}
Pledges will be guild-friends/people who may move on to full membership.
Anything above pledge will require full membership in the Valar Guild and all the perks that come with it :}
This is how I see it. Feel free to add on your thoughts.
Take care :} Eonwë
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Varda
Vala, Council
Posts: 1,041
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Ranking
Jan 14, 2004 14:51:12 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 14, 2004 14:51:12 GMT -5
Thanks for that clear picture of MEO's ranks. We can go with that as our working system.
The "leader" would still be working as part of the Council of Mahanaxar, especially those who are also in MEO, as well as taking suggestions from all members. A guild is only as good as its members, no matter how well it is set up.
Members: We might consider a modification, similar to the one from WC3. We could call all full members of every honor, Members.
Elders: Those Members who are highly active helping the guild in MEO could move up to Elder (like Shaman) and would gain the necessary service points for Maia from this if not already Maia or Vala, and hopefully be able to pass the Maia Honor test to be a tester himself. All Eldar should be able to test, cutting down any confusion. I would expect any current Maiar and Valar to become Eldar quickly, as they are naturally active.
Scouting: Even a Pledge would be able to scout for new folk who seem to share our values. The Pledge could bring them in to game with us and give out the web page. If the potential recruit has several Members to vouch for his character, he could probably be installed as a Pledge right away.
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Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,322
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Jan 14, 2004 15:27:20 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Jan 14, 2004 15:27:20 GMT -5
So..
Pledge = Guild-Friend Member = All members of any honor in the Valar Guild Elder = active Maiar and Valar in the Valar Guild
?
That's how I'm reading it. Sounds fine to me, just making sure that's how you mean it :}
Take care. Eonwë
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Varda
Vala, Council
Posts: 1,041
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Jan 14, 2004 18:17:19 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 14, 2004 18:17:19 GMT -5
Aye!
Reason: Taking Irmo's advice, here. And a page from you, Eonwe, in WC3. You both sound right.
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Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,322
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Ranking
Jan 15, 2004 2:19:26 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Jan 15, 2004 2:19:26 GMT -5
Pardon, the ? was meant to illustrate that entire first part was my question :}
But now that I know we're on the same page, sounds good :}
Hopefully we're not limited in our number of Elders. It would be annoying to have to switch characters over and over just to get the abilites we should be able to stick on all our chars. But if it is, guess we just tag our main ones as whatever ranking we are and the rest go into membership (really only a problem for anyone Elder and above :}).
Take care :} Eonwë
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Varda
Vala, Council
Posts: 1,041
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Jan 15, 2004 14:37:08 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 15, 2004 14:37:08 GMT -5
I think Irmo's group found it best to have just one main, rather than any of the alternates, have the special designation, which would be Elder in our case. We might check into the exact why, but it might have been a way to help recognition. If we can keep our names related to our primaries, and keep our alts listed for Elders at least, we might get around the recognition problem. If it's a number problem, we can do the main-only to handle it. Elders would be responsible for keeping a list of guild alternates updated - yeah, right. The only real problem that I can see with main-only Elders is a shortening of reach in the game, especially as the world enlarges with each expansion.
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Ranking
Jan 15, 2004 20:45:25 GMT -5
Post by Alatar on Jan 15, 2004 20:45:25 GMT -5
The issue in DAoC was the realism factor on a roleplaying server. Are you the CHARACTERS, or the real life person behind the characters?
Alatarv (one of my characters on Percival) is a Carni rank, which is a guild officer. Alatarward is Lossi, or Vice-Guildmaster. Yet my other alternate characters are just regular members. Why? Because in the mythos of the roleplaying server, they are all different people.
Now, if the general policy in MEO or the Valar Guild inside the MEO world is that we're not going for that level of immersion, then it makes sense to have all your characters hold the same rank, for convenience sake.
- Alatar
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Ranking
Jan 15, 2004 20:49:23 GMT -5
Post by Alatar on Jan 15, 2004 20:49:23 GMT -5
A word about ranks, gleaned from DAoC.
A title that means nothing...means nothing to the person it is conferred upon. To receive a guild promotion, people should receive something of value.
Note, this does not have to be actual in-game mechanics, although that works fine. Getting a promotion that allows one to invite others to the guild, or speak in "officer chat," those are things you remember.
But it can also be in the deference shown by the players. If I say to Varda, in-game, "You lead, for you are elder." I am showing respect for the higher rank. Now she might choose to say no, and ask me to lead because I know the way (for example), but my suggestion is MAKE RANKS MEAN SOMETHING.
This means use only a few ranks and make sure that each and every promotion in rank is noticed.
- Alatar
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Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,322
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Jan 16, 2004 0:28:41 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Jan 16, 2004 0:28:41 GMT -5
First, welcome to the Board Alatar! :}
On Characters and Immersion: I tend to see myself as Eonwë of the Valar Guild first and as my character second. If I had two characters, Auros and Urion, I am Urion, but I am also Auros. and I am also Eonwë. I wouldn't shirk a call to any of those names(well in MEO I would have to have people refrain from the latter but you get my point :}). Now I can act as I am that character when I am that character, but I'm not willing to ignore someone for calling me a name other than my character's shown name. I don't remember Gandalf chastizing Legolas for calling him Mithrandir in front of the Hobbits. I suppose I wouldn't be too popular in DAoC, but I'll live :} Guess it means I won't have more than one or two Guild characters then for MEO. A rose by any other name,..
On Ranking: Agreed, every rank should count. With only a few ranks that are actually achievable, (barring the Leader and Heir since the leader will be the branch leader/Vala and heir will be likewise a Vala) it should not be hard for ranking to be a noticable and prestigious event.
I guess the question is how much each should coincide with actual Guild standing, although they will most likely coincide all by themselves, with or without our help. Apparently Members will be all full members and Pledges will be Guild-friends either on their way in or with no further interest than playing. As I said in another thread, our entry test will pretty well be current events :}
Another interesting thing newly announced for MEO is Anonimity (gotta read about this one, it's kinda funny :}) This you can turn off or on, so I can choose whether or not the average Joe Dunadan will know who I am just by clicking on me, or if I will be like a Ranger and my true name will be unknown (they can't find out who I am by clicking on me).
Take care :} Eonwë
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Varda
Vala, Council
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Jan 16, 2004 1:32:00 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 16, 2004 1:32:00 GMT -5
Well said, both of you.
Alatar, thanks for coming in with your always welcome self and your valuable knowledge of DAoC to add to Elatan's!
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Varda
Vala, Council
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Jan 16, 2004 1:33:51 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 16, 2004 1:33:51 GMT -5
Anonymity:
Using it as MeO suggests to aid role-play is interesting, with the intention of forcing others to get to actually know the character as they would have to in real life.
Being Anonymous is also a choice in EverQuest, used sometimes to prevent beggers from asking for free stuff and power-leveling due to your being a higher level. Not being anonymous lets them know if they are of a level that can group with you. Is this similar to DAoC?
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Varda
Vala, Council
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Jan 16, 2004 1:52:52 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 16, 2004 1:52:52 GMT -5
Aye, we should work to make each rank mean something.
The first meaning is knowledge of Tolkien's work, which should mean something in a Middle-earth server.
Leader, Heir, that's pretty obvious. Also they are Valar, having passed both LotR and Silmarillion rigorous tests, by invitation of the sitting Council. Valar had to be fanatic in guild commitment to reach the honor, and I don't mean just one game. They are required to serve time on a Council that reaches all the games and Tolkien activities of the entire guild. If the MeO Leader and Heir don't try to help the group keep together, then the other Valar at their discretion or at the request of the membership, can ask them to shape up or be replaced, with replacements ready when they state this. The Leader and Heir are representatives of the Council, not acting purely on their own. Some executive decision is required but must eventually be accounted for if questionable. The membership should make its wishes known to the Leader, Heir, and Council so these can best serve the needs.
Elders are Valar or Maiar, so they have Tolkien knowledge to respect. To be elders, they have to show commitment to the MeO activities, aiding substantially, and are being honored for it. They can test for new Members.
How do we make Member mean more than Pledge (Guild-friend)? One is respect for actually having read the LotR, not just watched movies or found the game interesting. Members also have a total guild membership in the entire gaming world. We need more though, don't we? Something concrete in MeO. Maybe MeO will offer special things to wear, or colors. Suggestions, please? Also, if you have ideas for improving the other ranks, let us know!
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Elatan
Tolkien-Only Member
Vala
Elatan
Posts: 230
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Jan 17, 2004 12:11:34 GMT -5
Post by Elatan on Jan 17, 2004 12:11:34 GMT -5
Leader : The branch leader/coordinator will obviously be the leader and be the initializer of the Guild. agreed it has to be a council-member.
The heir will be another Vala who can take up the responsibilities should anythign happen to the leader (which should be any of us ValarAgreed
Elders will have to be a mix of Valar and Maiar. Could be worseAgreed Should in my opinion be the highest rank you can achieve as just common player can reach. you are alloved to vote on MeO subjects but not naturally in the Valar guilds other issues unles you are active in other parts of the guild. ( meetings, boards, pages, whatever.
Members will of course be the standard membership [Agreedas they are today
Pledges will be guild-friends/people who may move on to full membership. Even a Pledge would be able to scout for new folk who seem to share our values. The Pledge could bring them in to game with us and give out the web page. If the potential recruit has several Members to vouch for his character, he could probably be installed as a Pledge right away. Agreed
The first meaning is knowledge of Tolkien's work, which should mean something in a Middle-earth server. Standard minimum im my opinion for a pledge who wants to become Member ( 5 question test ? ) A pledge is a guildfriend and maybe to drag him into reading, if he not have already, Pledge can not tag along on the Tolkien guild events and online MeO guild meetings if we are going to have such. If we are going to kill the Balrog he is not naturally invited as members of the guild.
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Eonwë
Vala, Council
Vala and proud member of the Valar Guild. A quarter century of Tolkien fun.
Posts: 1,322
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Jan 18, 2004 0:42:41 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Jan 18, 2004 0:42:41 GMT -5
Then how does the pledge get to know us if the only time they can see us is when we choose to game with him/her?
I see quite limited options for the pledge from this, as they cannto get to know us if we don't let them hang around. Major quests I can agree with, but I'm somewhat lost as to why not the branch meeting. Unless that happens to be upon the festivity day or such that month, then I can somewhat understand but then the pledge feels left out and that may or may not push them to move to the next step.
Perhaps other benefits upon transition from pledge to member is special guild rates on any sort of craft needs, from weapons to armor. I know we have typically been a freely giving group, and since I have not had serious experience (read any time invested past about lvl 10) on any MMORPG I'm inclined to continue with that if only for my self. But I figure crafting "at cost" meaning paying for/getting the items required should be at least sufficient, with other discounts/gifts given at the discression of the crafter.
First and foremost we should be self-sufficient, so encouraging our members to trade within the Guild is a good start. Guild support could be given to crafters who do this service, so they will be able to pay for their skills, and/or they could also trade outside. I know I'll hear thoughts on this :}
Take care :} Eonwë
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Varda
Vala, Council
Posts: 1,041
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Jan 19, 2004 21:22:00 GMT -5
Post by Varda on Jan 19, 2004 21:22:00 GMT -5
Maybe MeO will have special markings we can wear on our armor as they did on DAoC. That would be a nifty incentive to be a Member.
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