Weapons

[Pallando]

Becasue I've found this works better as a seperate thread...

What weapons should there be? I can have a total of 8 classes of weapons, the 4 I have are:

Staff, Sword, Bow, Axe. I do no have to fill up every slot, but it would be nice to have 8 classes..

Also, what should the equipment names be? There's currently the weapon, sheild, armor, boots, and helm..I can't think of any better names for a ME world, but...

As well as that, what level interval should the equipment be? Different for each type? 2? 3? 4? 5? 10?

[arathorn]

In comparing to D2X, here are some possibilities:

-Magical enhancements:
Sceptres, Wands, Orbs

-Two handed (no shield but more powerful attack)
Pole-arms/Spears, Two-handed axes, Cross-bows (faster than regular bow but less arrows per quiver)

-Throwing:
Throwing daggers, Throwing axes

-Other (stronger against undead, skeletons):
Maces, daggers


Some classes, like Barbarians, can wield two large weapons at a time, while other can only hold one.

---

Armor is pretty much the same in D2X:
Hats/Helms, Belts, Armour, Gloves, Shield, Rings(2), Amulets(1)



I was wondering if the game play could be altered to allow for 'augmenting' of weapons and armor i.e. from items you may find/win or can pay an NPC to increase magical/strength abilities on them. Could make for more strategic purchase of weaps/armour. A thought anyway...

[Pallando]

For the two handed attacks: The only way to do this is rather ugly, but possible.

Attack speed and arrows per quiver: Neither of these are doable in the tradition sence, and attack speed is not, I believe. Scripts can not be executed during a fight, and last I checked, there is no marker to tell how many times a player hits with what weapon. Therefor, it could be that the arrows last a limited number of fights, before the bow is taken away, but that's the best I can do.


Throwing weapons would end up just being normal weapons with a attack frame like a bow, and we run into the same problem as with arrows.

Weapons stronger against an element are quite possible, though they will be weaker against another.

The semi-problem with augumenting a weapon, is that there are only 1028 items (armor, weapons, everything) that a character can have multiple copies of. However, there are almost 4000 item slots that can be unique to each character (so a character can have 1, but many characters may have them). This make sence in a way, as the weapon that is enchanted/whatnot should be fairly unique.

If I missed anything, tell me..

[arathorn]

Well, depending on how the game applies hit points, shouldn't a two handed weapon (like a spear or polearm) just take one hand and leave the other ..er.. un-fillable. Seems to me that in WoS as a druid I could hold the staff in one hand, and my other hand would *not* be able to hold a shield. Don't know if this could be done dynamically, or does/would certain chars ONLY be able to hold a specific type of weapon. Is that just the way Aerianell was coded or is that a WoS coding limitation? What I'm getting at here as an example is, would a Sorc type char still be able to hold, say, an orb and shield OR only a staff (i.e. then can't hold shield) as in D2X, or would it have to be one or the other (i.e. char can either hold 2 or only one item).

In D2X, all chars can hold any kind of regular weapon or shield, but only CERTAIN specific weapons or armor(s) can be worn only by specific chars (because of the attributes that they enhance).


Since attack speed and or things like arrows and throwing weapons don't really exist in WoS (didn't in the old D2 either, you had unlimited arrows), then those type of weapon augmentations won't apply (was really just comparing to D2X and identifying the weapons and other types of things that can be made better i.e. weapon speed, spell casting speed).

Instead of that, what could be made 'better' in WoS? Running speed can, we know that, what about spell enhancements? Say if you have a specific wand or orb, could it let you use a spell you normally can't OR enhance one beyond your max limits (or if not at least up to the limit)? I know there were some weapon enhancements in Aerianell, so could be interesting to apply it in Elvondel. Depends on whether it can be done dynamically by code or whether these types of things are more static. Not having coded in its script, I'm just throwing out ideas.


I guess first off, we'd want to decide if certain weapons/armor would only be for certain chars/classes and if so which. Then identify what is possible as crossover weapons, or enhancement types. Depends on what is possible in gameplay coding in the end.


Anyway, the previous post just identified some other possible weapon types. I'm sure if we discuss the classes and chars more, weapons will fall into place better. Further, quest ideas would lend themselves to figuring out what other items could play a role in weapon/armor/spell enhancement too (things found, bought,won).

I guess the next step is a breakdown of classes and which weapons/armor makes sense for each.

[Pallando]

Weapons are static. They can not be dynamically scripted. That means I must manually script EVERY possiblity for enhancement, then give that weapon tot he player in the game. There's no way to change the attack power/ect of a weapon through scripts. It's totally static.

Aerianell uses a neat trick to disallow mages from having shields. When coding the weapons, Loric has it so that shields need a specific token (on/off variable) to use. He then give this to the classes allowed to use shields. Simple.

The same trick can be used for enchanced weapons/armor. When I code the weapons/armor, I simply make it so that you must have a certian token or tokens to wear that armor/weild weapon depending on the attributes. I then can give each class the tokens they require.

Enchancements: Well, let me dig out items.txt and we'll see.

I can change the alingment of the item, the a/d points, I can change the sound effect, I can change how you attack with it (one long jump, ect), as well as the weather that happens, so give a ice sword a nice slow effect. That's really it, for use in battle. I can change essencially anything about the weapon, but that's all that's useful in battle.

Alright. I'll make classes in Elvondel, and have Turgon move this and the storyline there.

[arathorn]

Hmm.. ok the ice sword sounds interesting. What about something light lightning, fire, etc damage? Does an 'ice' sword do more damage? Does (could) it slow opponents attack? Could it only affect certain monsters (or affect them differently)? Could monsters have resistance/immunuity to certain types of attack ex: a dragon would not be hurt much (or at all) by a fire 'spell' or enhanced weapon? Resistances for/on special armor would be interesting too, to protect the player (of course would depend on monster and other player attack capabilities).

[Pallando]

Swords and armor can be aligned to a specific element, one of the 8 on the spell wheel. If a weapon is alinged to say, element 0, it will increase damage vs element 4 and decrease vs element 0. If armor is aligned to element 0, element 0 attacks will be decreased, and element 4 attacks will be increased (I think).

No way to slow attack, as mentioned above.

[Pallando]

Ok, we have:

Staff
Sword
Bow
Axe

After re-reading Arathorn's posts, I would add to this:

Spear
Dagger

After looking at items.txt for longer then should be legal, I came up with the idea of throwing out class 6, the 'plural' class. It uses 'some' instead of 'a' (you found some pebbles, instead of you found a sword).

After playing RoT, I thought of a 'special' class that would be for Valar characters, special items, and the like.

Now, to differentiate between the classes, we need to come up with the general feel of the weapons.

Staff - dosn't attack physically, casts spell - high cost - rare
Sword - medium short range, medium damage - low cost - very common
Bow - long range, medium low damage - medium cost - common
Axe - short range, medium high damage - medium high cost - not common
Spear - medium long range, medium damage - medium cost - common
Dagger - very short range, high damage - medium high cost - rare

Edit: After thinking for a moment, I realized that range means little because of dexterity. However, I do want some variation. So, I appened this to the description:

high cost - rare
low cost - very common
medium cost - common
medium high cost - not common
medium cost - common
medium high cost - rare

Common/rare/not/very is how often you find it after a battle. You will generally find a sword off of a sword-welding orc, but you might find a bow that the orc picked off a earlier kill, and so on.

Edit2: After editing the HANDS section, I realized having a missing space and then another weapon and then special wouldn't look nice. Therefore, I'll take out spears which is really just swords with a different look. I'll leave the entry here in in case I decide to take out daggers later or something.

[arathorn]

Was wondering, would only certain classes use certain weapons as in other WoS worlds or can anyone use anything (or at least certain other things not specific to their class), but less effectively?

Also, if you kill a monster and find things, can it be coded so that what's dropped is specific to your class, say, for a larger percentage of the time. One thing I find very annoying in D2X is that you can find a ton of good stuff yet it's almost always for another class. At least if it was specific to the people in the game at the moment, it would make gameplay more enjoyable. If I have a Barbarian and keep finding rare bows, it's annoying at best (Amazons use bows). At least if there was an Amazon in the game at that moment, a trade could ensue...

My 2 cents <clink, clink...>

[Pallando]

Hmm. We can have it either way. Aerianell has it that you can only use your weapons, but Evergreen has it you can use ANY weapon. Either way is doable.

A script to make sure (or be fairly sure) that the item dropped is useable to you? Well..it's semi-possible. But you'd be better off fighting a monster with the weapons you need.

[Pallando]

Varda and I got to talking and we figured this out:

Weapons every 5 levels, making for 20 weapons. We have 5 metals to work with: bronze, copper, iron, steel, and mithril, so 4 swords and 4 axes of each, along with a few named weapons.

For Bows and Staves (I like that better), we will use 5 types of wood. Bows will have various bowstring to use as well, and staves will be decorated or cast in metals.

Any thoughts?

[arathorn]

er.. a tad confused here:

For Bows and Staves we will use 5 types of wood
-What are the types?

Bows will have various bowstring to use as well
Er.. how does this apply to the bow? What does the bowstring add (since the wood type will determine strength of bow)? Also, can each wood type have 5 diff bowstring types (thus 25 types of bows)?

staves will be decorated or cast in metals
As with bowstrings, what does the casting add?
er.. how does this work?

[Pallando]

I havn't decided yet. I need to look into what types of wood bows/staves are made of. I figure Yew and Birch will be for Bow, Oak for Stave.

Bowstring will add a dimention to the name. "Elf hair strung Yew bow" Hmm. That'll be too long.. Oh well, it will fit in the description at the very least. Same goes for the staves.

[arathorn]

Will the bowstrings actually add any attributes/skills to the bows (or is it only for the naming convention)? If so, will each bow 'wood type' be hierarchically or accumulatively stronger/better?

Random Ex:
---------------
Bow wood type:
1-Pine
2-Cedar
3-Walnut
4-Maple
5-Oak

String type (still thinking about string types, Flax being the only one I know of from medieval times):
1-Flax
2-bla2
3-bla3
4-bla4
5-bla5


Would you end up with 25 combinations of the above?
(PineFlax, Pinebla2,etc.
(CedarFlax, Cedarbla2, etc.etc.etc...)

===

Btw, I found this on the net for types of soft and hard woods that may help in your decision (I randomly chose 5 for the above example:

HARDWOODS

Mahogany: Fine grained, reddish brown in color. Very durable and resists swelling shrinking, and warping. Used for quality furniture such as cabinets; boat construction; wood facings and veneers.

Walnut: Fine textured, strong, easy to work with and resists shrinking and warping and finishes well. Best used for gunstocks, solid and veneered furniture, novelties, cabinetry and wall paneling.

Oak: Strong with good bending qualities. Is durable and finishes well and resists moisture absorption. Used for furniture, trimming, boat framing, desks and flooring.

Maple: Fine textured and is fine textures. It is strong and hard. Has moderate shrinkage and machines well. Best used in flooring, fine furniture and woodenware such as bowling alleys.

Cherry: Close-grained and resists warping and shrinking. It will redden when exposed to sunlight and ages well. Used in cabinet making, boat trim, novelties, solid furniture handles and turned projects.

Rosewood: Very hard and has a dark reddish brown color. It is fragrant and close grained. It is hard to work and takes high polish. Used in musical instruments, piano cases, tool handles, art projects, veneers and furniture.

Teak: Hard and durable and resistant the moisture and rot. It resists warping, cracking and decay. Best used in fine furniture, paneling, shipbuilding, doors, window framing, flooring and general construction.


SOFTWOODS

Pine: It has uniform texture, works easy and finishes well. It resists shrinkage, swelling and warping. Used in house construction, paneling and trim. Also used for furniture, molding and boxes.

Hemlock: Light in weight, uniformly textured. It machines well and has low resistance to decay and nonresinous. Used for construction lumber, planks, doors, boards, paneling, sub flooring and crates.

Fir: Works easy and finishes well. Uniform in texture and nonresinous. Has low resistance to decay. Used in furniture, doors, frames, windows, plywood, veneer, general millwork and interior trim.

Redwood: Light in weight, durable and easy to work. Has a natural resistance to decay. Used in outdoor furniture, fencing, house siding, interior finishing, veneering and paneling.

Spruce: Strong and hard. Finishes well and has low resistance to decay. Has moderate shrinkage and light in weight. Used for masts and spars for ships, aircraft, crates, boxes, general millwork and ladders.

Cedar: Fresh sweet odor and reddish in color. Easy to work and uniform in texture and is resistant to decay. Used in chest making, closet lining, shingles, posts, dock planks, novelties and Venetian blinds.

[Pallando]

Hmm. I think I get it now. You're thinking of the Bowstring as a seperate peice from the bow..no. The players will get their bows preassembled.. For examble: A flax yew bows would be level 20, and a bow strung with the hair of an Elf would be level 25.. So on and so forth.