Spirits of Elves, Men, and Others in Arda
Sept 18, 2012 8:47:07 GMT -5
Post by Eonwë on Sept 18, 2012 8:47:07 GMT -5
To those of us in the US, this may sound like more of an "October" topic, but I'm going to post it now anyway.
We've discussed the Houseless and quoted the appropriate section in Morgoth's Ring at meetings several times.
I've been thinking about our most recent discussion on the subject, however, and thought it would be an interesting bit fun for a larger group of us Tolkien fans.
So, these are the questions to be considered:
1.) What examples do we have of the spirits of naturally incarnate beings persisting unnaturally in Arda? I'm talking Men, Elves, Hobbits, Orcs, Trolls, that kind of thing. No Ainur. Give a brief description of the situation leading to the unnatural existence.
2.) What commonalities can we find within each population with regards to these unnatural occurrences?
3.) What, if any, commonalities can we find in the entire set of unnatural occurrences?
Guidelines:
1.) Cite where each occurrence can be found, with enough specificity for others to find the info.
2.) Prefer canon examples (Hobbit, LotR, Sil) to non-canon (UT, HoME). Specifically, list canon examples first, followed by non-canon.
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Let's get to some examples in case we don't know what we're looking for.
The Oathbreakers - Lord of the Rings - In "The Passing of the Grey Company" in RotK, we're told they served Sauron in the Dark Years. When Isildur came to Middle-Earth after Numenor was destroyed, this people swore allegiance to him. Isildur later called them to fight Sauron, and they refused. Isildur cursed them for breaking their oath, that they could not rest until it was fullfilled.
Gorlim - The Silmarillion - He was caught by Sauron in a trap set for him, and being promised reunion with his wife, Gorlim betrayed Barahir and his companions. Slain after his betrayal, Gorlim then appeared to Beren in a dream and warned him. Doesn't seem he stuck around any longer than that though.
The Houseless - Morgoth's Ring, "Of Re-birth and Other Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos" - The hroa (body) is considered the house of the fëa (spirit), so when an Elf dies, it's considered Houseless. The fëa can be re-housed, if it answers to the summons of Mandos. If it does not, it remains in Middle-Earth, where it may not be of a particularly friendly nature. Specifically, we're interested the latter kind, that may seek to commune with the Living (a forbidden act for both the Houseless and the Living) and maybe even take a body (which of course is forbidden).
OK, let's see what we can find :}
We've discussed the Houseless and quoted the appropriate section in Morgoth's Ring at meetings several times.
I've been thinking about our most recent discussion on the subject, however, and thought it would be an interesting bit fun for a larger group of us Tolkien fans.
So, these are the questions to be considered:
1.) What examples do we have of the spirits of naturally incarnate beings persisting unnaturally in Arda? I'm talking Men, Elves, Hobbits, Orcs, Trolls, that kind of thing. No Ainur. Give a brief description of the situation leading to the unnatural existence.
2.) What commonalities can we find within each population with regards to these unnatural occurrences?
3.) What, if any, commonalities can we find in the entire set of unnatural occurrences?
Guidelines:
1.) Cite where each occurrence can be found, with enough specificity for others to find the info.
2.) Prefer canon examples (Hobbit, LotR, Sil) to non-canon (UT, HoME). Specifically, list canon examples first, followed by non-canon.
------------------------------------------
Let's get to some examples in case we don't know what we're looking for.
The Oathbreakers - Lord of the Rings - In "The Passing of the Grey Company" in RotK, we're told they served Sauron in the Dark Years. When Isildur came to Middle-Earth after Numenor was destroyed, this people swore allegiance to him. Isildur later called them to fight Sauron, and they refused. Isildur cursed them for breaking their oath, that they could not rest until it was fullfilled.
Gorlim - The Silmarillion - He was caught by Sauron in a trap set for him, and being promised reunion with his wife, Gorlim betrayed Barahir and his companions. Slain after his betrayal, Gorlim then appeared to Beren in a dream and warned him. Doesn't seem he stuck around any longer than that though.
The Houseless - Morgoth's Ring, "Of Re-birth and Other Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos" - The hroa (body) is considered the house of the fëa (spirit), so when an Elf dies, it's considered Houseless. The fëa can be re-housed, if it answers to the summons of Mandos. If it does not, it remains in Middle-Earth, where it may not be of a particularly friendly nature. Specifically, we're interested the latter kind, that may seek to commune with the Living (a forbidden act for both the Houseless and the Living) and maybe even take a body (which of course is forbidden).
OK, let's see what we can find :}